Okay, so why in the name of Temperance, Michigan does Celie (a battered, downtrodden wife) tell Harpo to beat Sofia?! What is going on here? Is it a case of misery loves company or is something else happening here? Do you see internalized racism at work here? Hmm...why did Walker have Celie give this advice as opposed to a man in the story? What is revealed about this society and its effect on the people living in it? Also:
*Analyze Celie's guilt surrounding this situation
*What do you learn about Shug Avery? What is her effect on Celie's home?
*What does Celie tell God about Mr.___and Shug?
*What is the comic relief in this section?
*What is something that Celie and Shug have in common?
*Why does Celie now feel "just right"? Will this feeling continue? Why/why not?
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Edith Wharton
John Steinbeck
Mark Twain
Nathaniel Hawthorne
Ralph Ellison
Alice Walker
27 comments:
I think that Celie told Harpo to beat Sofia because it was the first thing that came to her mind. It seems like it's a normal part of a housewifes life to get beaten in this book. It's not odd and a little nondescript. Sofia has a lot that most women in that situation do not have. She knows how to defend herself and she fights for what she believes. Celie is jealous she does not have that. She wants to fight for herself but doesn't.
Celie told Harpo to beat his wife because that's all she has known. For all her life, Celie has seen wives beaten and womanized by their husbands. She knows nothing else. Celie also wants to knock Sofia down a peg. Celie envies Sofia's resolve and ability to stand up for herself, and Celie wishes to bring Sofia down to her level. Celie wants to see Sofia's resolve broken, just like hers.
Celie feels "just right" being with Mr. ____ and Shug. Celie's always admired Shug, and having Mr. ____ and Shug side with her against Tobias makes her feel like she finally belongs. I don't think this will last. This book has tons of foreshadowing, and Walker has peppered a bunch of it in this part of the novel. Shug and Mr. ____ have a long past. Harpo and Mr. ____'s other children are actually Shug's. Celie may be tossed aside if Shug shows any interest in joining Mr. ____ and staying with the family. Despite Shug's neglect for her other children, she would belong in the household more than Celie. Shug's evil nature (because of the sickness??) hints that she may do something drastic just to hurt Celie.
Mr. ____ admits that he loves Shug, and always will. Yet he doesn't love Celie. When he acts on this love (which he will) Celie will no longer feel "just right," because she won't belong anymore.
I keep rambling on with these...oh well...
Celie feels guilty for telling harpo to beat sofia because she knows she doesn't like being beaten herself. It is the only way she knows how to have someone "mind" someone else. Celie is also jealous of sofia being able to stand up for herself, she looks to sofia to help her learn to do so herself.
Celie tells Harpo to beat Sofia because she knows Sofia is able to stand up for herself. Celie knows that Harpo isn't actually going to be able to beat Sofia without a fight from her. I think Celie respects Sofia for being able to stand up for herself.
I think Celie tells Harpo to try and beat Sofia because its all she knows personally with her experiences with Mr.___, more so than her admitted jealousy of Sofia being able to stand up for herself. But opening up to Sofia allows Celie's will to become a little stronger i think, because Sofia encourages her to fight for herself, like Mr.___'s sisters did before.
When Shug Avery comes into their household, she is first seen as an "evil" girl who just seems to want to get her way all the time, but i think she starts to show herself as just a strong willed woman who doesnt let other people step all over her. But her pampered life combined with her strong willed makes her seem selfish.
I think Celie says she feels just right with Mr.___ and Shug, because Celie sees past her "evil and rebellious" appearance, and admires her strong will. Plus, when shes around, Mr.___ and Celie are able to connect because of their mutual interest in caring for Shug.
I think that Celie is very jealous of Sofia. Celie acts as thought she is content with doing whatever Mr. ___ or anyone tells he to do, but i think deep down she really wishes she could fight for herself, she just has no idea how to do that. She envies Sofia's ability to not be walked all over and it goes with the saying misery loves company, but later on when Celie thinks about and realizes that she just sentenced Sofia to a fate that Celie is living, she feels horrible about what she did. I don't think that Celie really fully realized what she was doing when she told Harpo to beat her.
The effect that Shug Avery has on Celie and Mr. ___ is almost scary. Mr.____ is in love with Shug and will do whatever Shug says whenever she says it. Celie is also totally stupefied by Shug Avery. Celie talks about keeping the strands of Shug's hair that fall out when Celie brushes it, and talks about how much she loves her. Mr.___ listens to her and stops smoking, eating and everything until Celie finally gets Shug to eat something. He is scared and does anything he can to help Shug, which is odd because earlier in the novel it seems as though he is only concerned with himself and whatever he wants, he gets.
i think the reason Celie told harpo to beat sofia was because she was jealious of all the freedom she had in the relationship with Harop and wanted to in a way, be even with the other women in her life.Sofia is a black woman in the same life as her but with a special privladge that celie could never compete with. it was a way to equilize the circumstances between the two different relationships. i think that Celie gave this instruction instead of a man because it is more of a suprise to the readers for celie to say something like that. she knows how horrible it is to be beaton. it would have a bigger effect because men in this society are assumed to beat their wives. it would be nothing out of the ordinary to have a man say that same thing. i also think that shug avery didnt help the situation. a beautiful girl whom the Mr. loves comes into the house and seems to take over. Celie began to have feelings that maybe if she was Shug, she would be accepted more. she seemed to be the only one that was beaton by Mr. and out of rage told harpo to beat Sofia.
Celie told Harpo to beat Sofia because throughout Celie's entire life, she has only seen men beat their wives in order to get them to listen. Celie's father beat celie's mother and Celie's husband even beats her. Since Celie is only seeing the wives being beaten and has never seen a woman stand up or fight back, she doesn't know any other way for the man to get what he wants. Sofia is the first female Celie has seen to stand up for herself, and Celie is somewhat amazed and jealous by the way Sofia can stand up for herself.
Shug Avery is a lot different than I would have expected her to be. I would have expected Shug to be more nice and kind, but Shug is really mean. To me, it seems like Shug doesn't even have any affection toward Mr._____, even though he still loves Shug. Once Shug arrives she changes how everybody acts in the household. Mr._____ is more quiet and seems to be more sad, rather than his usual bad attitude. Celie seems to be affected by Shug too, Celie seems attracted to Shug.
I think Celie told Harpo to beat Sofia because she was filled with jealousy that Sofia isn't treated like a slave in her own house like she is. Celie is jealous that Sofia can stand up to her husband and physically fight back. Celie wants to be able to do that but she is not strong enough. Along with being jealous Celie is also used to being beaten and treated like a dog that she assumes all men must be like that. That is why she tells Harpo to do that to his wife because all she knows is the husband beating the wife if she does not perform her duties correctly.
I think Celie told Harpo to beat Sofia because that's what she knows from personal experience and all she has ever found in a relationship, thinking it is the way to go about an action. Later, Celie's guilt is found through her sleepless nights and unknown guilty thoughts. When Sofia approaches Celie on the subject, she realizes what she had done wrong, feeling bad about it, but also sad, as she envies Sofia for her defending herself against Harpo. Also, Shug is starting to influence the house, as she is talking more with Celie, who seems to be happy with it, while Shug is making Mr. ____ sad.
I think Walker had a purpose allowing Celie to give advice to Harpo instead of a man. I think her purpose was to help develop Celie's voice. By telling Harpo to beat his wife, Celie realized she made a mistake. Her wrong develops her by making her realize that she must not take people down a rung to make herself feel better. Perhaps it is so that if she speaks up for herself she will gain a standing of respect as well as a voice to stick up for herself rather than lowering other people. I think Walker tries to give insight as to how Celie will better her standing through this advice.
When Celie told Harpo to beat Sophia I was a little shocked, though after thinking it over it started to make a little sense. Celie grew up in a world where if a woman messed up she was beaten, she was beaten as a child, as a young adult, and as a wife. In my opinion Celie might have seen Sophia as a woman who was not beaten and seemed to be a little too free as a wife. This might have been due to the fact that her husband beat her and she felt as Sophia deserved some hurt as well.
I think that the most important reason that Celie was into the idea of Harpo beating Sofia was that it was something that was accepted, or even expected in that era. women in those times had no power. Celie did all the cooking, cleaning and housework, while Mr.____ did the farming. But still, Celie was beaten. The fact that Harpo tried to beat Sofia and was beaten himself was something that was not accepted back then. For Sofia to have the power in the marrage is the one thing that Harpo can't accept and tries to fill that vaid of power by eating all of the time.
Celie does have an odd relationship with Shug. I like the way Hannah put it above; that she is stupefied by her. Celie has never known a woman like Shug before so she is mystified and, in a sense, captivated. Her relationship with Shug, at this point in the book, reminds me of Stockholm’s Syndrome, which is where a person who is held captive or mistreated develops a sense of loyalty to their captor/abuser. Despite Shug’s treatment of her, Celie is willing to do just about anything and everything for her.
I don’t know if I’d say internalized racism exists, but I do think that internal and external sexism is a major factor in this book. It is something that is ingrained in everyone, male and female alike. I think this is the reason that Celie tells Harpo to beat Sofia. It is all that she has ever known so she figures that it is basically all that exists.
I think the reason Celie tells Harpo to beat Sofia is that that is the first thing Celie thought of. I don't think she did it because she was jealous of Sofia. Since that is how Albert has made Celie mind, by beating her, that is why she told Harpo to beat her. She finnaly realizes what she did wrong and feals terrible about it, which is how you can tell she is not jealous of Sofia. They even make up by sewing together.
Celie told Harpo to beat Sofia as it was what Celie knew as the normal, and it was the clear method from within her mind which has been damaged by this flawed society. I have seen a jealousy claim made by others on this blog, and I never thought of it that way, but it may be a possibility a secondary reasoning.
I am very shocked and ashamed in Celie when she tells Harpo that he should beat Sofia, so she will lesten to him. I guess maybe she says that because she is upset that Sofia can stand up for herself, and Celie can't. I knows she wants to but if she does there will be consequences for her, that just is not worth it. If it were me, I would be long gone. I guess thats just the time period though.
Celie told Harpo to beat his wife Sofia because she feels that Sofia pities her and Celie resented her pity. Celie admits to Sofia that she told Harpo to beat her. Celie feels sorry about it and even says that she was jealous because Celie wishes that she could fight back like Sofia did with Harpo. Celie was right that Sofia pities her because when Celie asked Sofia, Sofia said yes and that the way Celie takes abuse reminds her of Sofia's mother.
Some of the illusions about Shug Avery are that she is a good looking, well known singer. The second half is true. Although she is well known, she has become a sickly, short tempered slave driver. She makes Celie wait on her hand and foot. She has the "woman sickness" and is confined to bed. It is humorous that she is in this condition because it brings to mind the phrase: "What goes around, comes around". Shug had mistreated people like Celie and Mr._____and is now unable to take care of herself.
Celie has a felling that she calls "just right". It seems to be caused by the fact that Shug Avery, who is living with her and Mr._____, has total control over Mr._____, something Celie couldn't dream of. She has this power, for one of many reasons, because she was told be Celie that it makes no difference to her if she sleeps with her husband. This appears to give Mr._____ the impression that he needs to do as Shug says if he wants her "favors". This acceptance of adultery is another theme that the author trys to portray in the novel.
I think Celie tells Harpo to beat Sofia because that is the only way she has seen husbands treat their wives. In her life, men physically abusing their wives is the norm. Her own father would beat her mother as she was growing up. This would lead her to believe that this was a natural thing for a man to do to his wife. Celie is also beaten by her "husband" frequently.
Whoa i think i misunderstood something...
Were these posts due ON June 8th, or BY June 8th?
By end of day on July 8th is good.
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